Normal MMC in stand on Siemens MMC

[relay]

Hi all,
do anyone know if it's possible to use a "commercial" MMC (buy in electronic store, online,,...) in stand of Siemens MMC?
if yes, how format them?

regards!

[CoMod]

it's possible to use a "commercial" MMC (buy in electronic store, online,,...) in stand of Siemens MMC?
if yes, how format them?

it's impossible - Siemens MMC have internal hardware extention.

[nico2786]

HI!

see a post of tischer

Hi every body,

last two weeks I was working on understanding what are S7-31x MMCs. In the end I collected following information:

64KB-4MB SIEMENS MMC cards are standard 16MB MMCs with special SIEMENS format. Datasheet at http://www.tischer.cz/HB28D032MM2-RENESAS.pdf.

8MB SIEMENS MMCs are the same but 32MB MMCs.

You can make bit copy of these MMCs by using tools at http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/suwe in standard MMC/SD card reader. By using this tools you also copy the special SIEMENS format.

But in case you would like to use non SIEMENS 16MB or 32MB MMC, you cant use it in S7 as every MMC has private CID and CSD register where are stored informacion as OEM/APPLICATION ID, PRODUCT NAME, .... . The example of SIEMENS 64KB MMC is at http://www.tischer.cz/64kb.txt. CID is OTP register and first 14 bytes of CSD are programed only by manufacturer. S7 checks and compares stored info. from CID and CSD.

If you have SIEMENS MMC accidentaly formated in standard MMC/SD card reader/writer (for example as FAT format) you can repair it in this standard MMC/SD reader/writer.
1. read original SIEMENS MMC by S7imgrd (the same size as failed card)
2. write this image to failed MMC by S7imgwr

When I was analyzing MMCs I also find out how is the password stored at the MMC.

If you have any question, email me at tischer@atlas.cz

[nico2786]

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/suwe/
эта программа только для копирования Сименс ММС карт через стандартный "бытовой" считыватель ММС карт, т.е. нет необходимости в использовании программатора для этой цели.
В принципе если копать вглубь, то может быть и будет возможно использовать обычную ММС.

Google translate:
this program is only for copying Siemens MMC cards through a standard "household" MMC card reader, ie no need to use the programming for this purpose.
In principle, if you dig deep, then perhaps it would be possible to use normal MMC.



Siemens S7 MMC eprom utils
To make a image file of your S7 MMC card place the card in a standard MULTICARD READER (recognized by your Win32 System) and
start the S7imgRD.exe. Select the drive letter of the card from the combo box and hit start.
If your system ask to format the Card – cancel !do not format!
Give a image file name to the save file dialog. Compress the image file and mail it together with the S7imgWR.exe to any place you want or
just keep the image file for later eprom replication in case you do not have access to the project files.
To bring the image file back to a eprom works same way, use the S7imgWR.exe.
I have tested the S7imgRD and S7imgWR with 128kb and 512kb. If you experience any difficulties feel free to send me a bug report.


Para hacer un imagen de su tajeta S7 MMC poner la tajeta en un lektor multistandard de tajetas memorias. Ejecutar S7imgRD.exe a una
plataforma de Win32. Elegir la letra de la unidad de la tajeta. Dar un nombre por el archivo imagen al dialogo guardar. Pulsar boton start.
Si la sistema prejuntar por formatear la tajeta, elegir NO!
Komprimir el archivo imagen y enviar junto con el programa S7imgWR.exe por cualquier sitio del mundo para reproducir, o guardar el archivo
por la seguridad si no tienes accesso al projecto.
Tengo comprobado el programa con eprom de 128kb y 512kb. Si encuetras complicaciones mandar me un correo.

sogar die Osterreichische Fahne weht gegen den wind
Um eine image Datei zu erzeugen stecke die S7MMC Karte in einen Multicard Reader. Dann starte die S7imgRD.exe auf einer Win32 Plattform.
Wahle den Laufwerksbuchstaben der MMC Karte in der Combobox.
Wenn das System die Karte formatieren will, dies Abbrechen!
Start klicken, im Datei offnen Dialog einen Dateinamen fur das Image angeben und los gehts.Die Image Datei komprimieren und zusammen mit
S7imgWR.exe versenden oder einfach das Image als Backup behalten, wenn man kein Projekt hat.
Die Zuruckfuhrung der Image Datei erfolgt analog mit dem S7imgWR.exe Programm.
Ich habe 128kb und 512kb eproms getestet. Sollte es doch noch zu Problemen kommen sende mir einfach eine mail.


freeware - free download, programa libre - descarga libre

S7imgRD.ZIP

S7imgWR.ZIP



-------- Siemens official FAQ----------------------------------
Deleting data on an MMC (Micro Memory Card)



QUESTION:
How can I delete the data on am MMC (Micro Memory Card)?

ANSWER:
You can use the following procedure to delete the block on an MMC in the CPU:

The MMC to be deleted is slotted in the CPU.
In the SIMATIC Manager, switch to online mode via "View > Online" or by pressing the appropriate button.
In the Online window, you select the block folder.
Mark all the blocks in the folder.
Right-click "Delete" (you can acknowledge the message that system functions cannot be deleted).

Entry ID:13992345 Date:12/20/2002
--------------------------------------------
Formatting MMC

QUESTION:
Why does the STOP LED flash on my CPU 31xC when the MMC (Micro Memory Card) is slotted? The CPU does not behave like this with other MMCs.

ANSWER:
The MMC in your CPU is not formatted or contains data that cannot be interpreted by this CPU (e.g. the configuration of a different CPU type or an operating system not compatible with the CPU).

WARNING:
When you format the MMC all the data that is located on the MMC is deleted!

Proceed as follows to format the MMC.

Your CPU requests an overall reset (slow flashing of the STOP LED).
Put the switch into the MRES position and hold it there until the STOP LED lights permanently (approx. 9 seconds).
You must then release the switch within the next 3 seconds and then put it back into the MRES position. The STOP-LED now flashes during formatting.
If the MMC cannot be formatted as described above, then the MMC is defective.

Note:
Formatting the MMC is only possible, if there is there are invalid data for the CPU located on the MMC. Otherwise, the MMC is only initialized when conducting the described steps.

More information for the handling of the MMC can be found in the manual "Automation system S7-300, build up CPU31xC and CPU 31x" under entry-ID 13008499.


Entry ID:10095508 Date:10/29/2003

--------------------------
Determining memory requirement of S7-300 MMC



QUESTION:
How can I determine the size of the MMC so that I can store my complete STEP 7 project on it?

ANSWER:
In order to choose the appropriate MMC for your project you need to know the overall size of the project and the size of the blocks to be loaded. You can determine the size of the project as described below:

First archive your STEP 7 project. Then open the archived project in Windows Explorer and determine its size (select and right-click). This gives you the size of the archived file.



Fig. 1: File properties

Load your blocks into the CPU. Now you still have to select "PLC > Module Information > Memory". There, in "Load memory RAM + EPROM", you can see the size of the assigned load memory.



Fig. 2: Load memory

You must add this value to the size of the archived project you have already determined. This gives you the overall amount of memory required to store your complete project on an MMC.



Entry ID:14053219 Date:01/08/2003

------------------------------
S7-300: maximum number of blocks on an MMC or CPU





QUESTION:
How many blocks can I load on an MMC and how much does this depend on the CPU used?

ANSWER:
The maximum number of blocks that you can load is primarily limited by the size of your MMC:

Type MLFB Max. number of blocks
MMC 64KB 6ES7953-8LF00-0AA0 768
MMC 128KB 6ES7953-8LG00-0AA0 1024
MMC 512KB 6ES7953-8LJ00-0AA0 limited by CPU
MMC 2MB 6ES7953-8LL00-0AA0 limited by CPU
MMC 4MB 6ES7953-8LM00-0AA0 limited by CPU
MMC 8MB 6ES7953-8LP00-0AA0 limited by CPU


Table 1: Maximum number of blocks on an MMC

In addition you have to pay attention to the quantity structure of the S7-300 CPU. The CPUs can process a maximum of 1024 or 2048 blocks:

MMC 64KB/128KB: the maximum number of loadable blocks is limited by the MMC.
From MMC 512KB the quantity structures of the CPUs are the limits.
More information on this topic is available in the reference manual "S7-300 Automation System, CPU Specifications: CPU 31xC and CPU 31x", sections 3 and 6 in Entry ID: 12996906

Keywords:
MMC, Number of blocks





Entry ID:13628154 Date:01/19/2004

=============simatic.nm.ru/phorum==========================
MMC от Siemens -- Bodrij -- 2005-07-12 12:53:20 Скажите, кто в курсе, можно ли в контроллерах Сименса использовать другие MMC, а то наши друзья из Сименса просят за 4 мега столько, что простую карту можно на 4 гига за эти деньги купить.
MMC от Siemens -- Vialij -- 2005-07-12 12:57:47 Поэтому у них и цена такая, что они 4 Гиг переформатируют и делают из них 4 Меги (утрировано).
MMC от Siemens -- Michael -- 2005-07-12 13:29:51 Нет, к великому сожалению.
MMC от Siemens -- smsasg -- 2005-07-12 13:49:09 Здесь можно скачать также образы различных типов MMC (правда, за исключением 128Кб, остальные без S7-программ):
http://kingleech.ki.funpic.de/wbblite/i ... der=0&sid=
Если кто-то сможет выслать образы с известным паролем, находящимся в нем, буду признателен.
MMC от Siemens -- smsasg -- 2005-07-12 13:34:26 Если есть оригинальная MMC, то можно считать ее образ и перешить на бытовую MMC при помощи:
http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/suwe/
MMC от Siemens -- Bodrij -- 2005-07-12 16:26:00 Спасибо всем!
Очень вовремя, удалось немножко сберечь зеленых президентов.
MMC от Siemens -- Vialij -- 2005-07-12 17:26:21 Так у вас получилось создать Сименовскую ММС из бытовой или нет? Какого размера брали карту под какой образ?
MMC от Siemens -- smsasg -- 2005-07-12 17:47:21 Судя по размерам образов, соответствие MMC Card следующее:
64Kb - 1.4Mb
128Kb - 1.8Mb
512Kb - 3.5Mb
8Mb - 20Mb

MMC от Siemens -- Vialij -- 2005-07-12 18:26:26 Тогда где достать карты столь малого размера? Cейчас бытовой минимум 128 мб продают.
Реально кто нибудь пробовал?
MMC от Siemens -- Bodrij -- 2005-07-12 18:40:26 Пока нет. Нет соответствующего железа, но через пару дней будет. Тогда отвечу.
Если кто-то реально это делал - подтвердите!
MMC от Siemens -- smsasg -- 2005-07-12 18:58:28 Из железа нужен Card Reader только. Я копировал 128kB-образ как-то на 32Mb MMC Card от мобильного телефона Siemens S45. Все работает.
MMC от Siemens -- Roman -- 2005-07-13 07:32:50 А как насчет не MMC, а MC карт ? Можно ли скачать их образ ?
MMC от Siemens -- smsasg -- 2005-07-13 08:14:47 Наверное, возможно. Но MC Card имеет параллельный интерфейс в отличии от последовательного в MMC, поэтому и алгоритмы работы с ней совершенно другие.
MMC от Siemens -- smsasg -- 2005-07-13 10:46:39 Если кому интересно, первые два байта образа несут информацию о размере MMC Card (конечный адрес): например,
64Kb 1-й байт 6C
2-й байт 0A (OA6C*2=14D800-кон.адрес)
128Kb 1-й байт 76
2-й байт 0D (OD76*2=1AEC00-кон.адрес)
512Kb 1-й байт 3C
2-й байт 1A (1A3C*2=347800-кон.адрес)
8Mb 1-й байт 34
2-й байт 8D (8D34*2=11A6800-кон.адрес)
Взято все из образов, считанных вышеупомянутой программой.



MMC от Siemens -- Свой -- 2005-07-13 19:22:12 Сделал все по рецепту. MMC 256mB. К сожалению не заработала. Пробовал заливать на нее образ с помощью рекомендуемой утилитки (S7ImgWR.exe) 128,512,8М, результат один, симатик карточку за свою не принимает. Если кто знает посоветуйте что делать. Карточку маленьких размеров не знаю где найти.



GOOGLE TRANSLATE:
============= simatic.nm.ru / phorum ==========================
MMC from Siemens - Bodrij - 2005-07-12 12:53:20 Tell me, who know whether to use other controllers Siemens MMC, and then our friends from Siemens asking for mega so that a simple map can be at 4 giga for the money to buy.
MMC from Siemens - Vialij - 2005-07-12 12:57:47 That is why they have and the price is such that they have 4 Gig reformat and make 4 of them Megi (exaggerated).
MMC from Siemens - Michael - 2005-07-12 13:29:51 No, unfortunately.
MMC from Siemens - smsasg - 2005-07-12 13:49:09 You can also download images of different types of MMC (true, except for 128K, others without S7-program):
http://kingleech.ki.funpic.de/wbblite/i ... ader=0&sid =
If someone can send the images with a known password, are there, be grateful.
MMC from Siemens - smsasg - 2005-07-12 13:34:26 If there is a genuine MMC, we can consider its image and altered on household MMC with:
http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/suwe/
MMC from Siemens - Bodrij - 2005-07-12 16:26:00 Thank you all!
It is time, managed to save a little green presidents.
MMC from Siemens - Vialij - 2005-07-12 17:26:21 So you got a Simenovskuyu MMC from home or not? What size are taken by a map image?
MMC from Siemens - smsasg - 2005-07-12 17:47:21 Based on the size, the relevant MMC Card as follows:
64Kb - 1.4Mb
128Kb - 1.8Mb
512Kb - 3.5Mb
8Mb - 20Mb

MMC from Siemens - Vialij - 2005-07-12 18:26:26 Then where to get maps of such small size? Ceychas household at least 128 mb sell.
Really anyone else tried?
MMC from Siemens - Bodrij - 2005-07-12 18:40:26 Not yet. None of the iron, but after a couple of days will be. Then answer.
If someone actually did it - confirm!
MMC from Siemens - smsasg - 2005-07-12 18:58:28 From the iron needed Card Reader only. I copied 128kB-image as something on 32Mb MMC Card from your mobile phone Siemens S45. Everything works.
MMC from Siemens - Roman - 2005-07-13 07:32:50 How about not MMC, and MC cards? Can I download their image?
MMC from Siemens - smsasg - 2005-07-13 08:14:47 Perhaps, perhaps. But MC Card has a parallel interface as opposed to serial in MMC, so the algorithms work with it are totally different.
MMC from Siemens - smsasg - 2005-07-13 10:46:39 If anyone interested, the first two bytes of the image carry information about the size MMC Card (End Address): for example,
64Kb 1-st byte 6C
2-nd byte 0A (OA6C * 2 = 14D800-kon.adres)
128Kb 1 st Byte 76
2-nd byte 0D (OD76 * 2 = 1AEC00-kon.adres)
512Kb 1-st byte 3C
2-nd byte 1A (1A3C * 2 = 347800-kon.adres)
8Mb 1 st Byte 34
2-nd byte 8D (8D34 * 2 = 11A6800-kon.adres)
Taken all of the images, just a few of the aforementioned program.



MMC from Siemens - Own - 2005-07-13 19:22:12 did all prescription. MMC 256mB. Unfortunately does not work. I tried to pour her way through the recommended utilitki (S7ImgWR.exe) 128,512,8 M, the result of one simatik card for his not accept. If anyone knows advise what to do. Card small sizes do not know where to find.